Friedrich Froebel invented the term ‘kindergarten’ in 1840 to express his vision for early childhood education, and his legacy continues to inspire early childhood educators.
Froebel believed that play is the principle means of learning in early childhood.
In a wide-ranging conversation recorded in the week leading up to the general election, the two champions of early years discussed the current state of early childhood education, including the expansion of early years places and what provision needs to look like to be in the best interests of young children.
Tina has written and edited over 30 books about early childhood education and is perhaps best known for the Ten Principles of Early Childhood Education, first published in 1987.
Both Tina and Liz highlighted the need to prioritise early education training, airing concerns that the quality of training has become less rigorous with shorter courses.
‘I think it's not just about grabbing on the latest bits of research as a way of training people, but actually having a framework, a philosophical framework,’ Tina said. ‘And I think that is what those early pioneers give us, you know, and people will choose different emphasis. But I don't like the idea of people being fashionable with training.’
In one exchange Tina called for a return to the NNEB, which for many over the years has been considered the gold standard in early years training, and Liz acknowledging that had been ‘a frequent call’ during her time at Nursery World, where she was editor for 26 years.
Tina said, ‘The thing I care about most is that if children are going to be in group settings, they need to be with nurturing, knowledgeable adults.’
Both Liz and Tina also shared concerns about the 'schoolification' of early childhood, and the concept of children 'being ready for school'. Tina said, 'I would really like to see a situation where, you know, the kindergarten went back to being children up to about seven.'
They also discussed Labour’s plans to create 3,000 nurseries in unused classrooms and whether that would be the right environment for nine- or ten-month-old babies.
This new provision would be largely in less advantaged areas where it is harder to open nurseries, said Liz, ‘because in a mostly private sector there isn't the incentive or sometimes it's just not possible to make a business viable out of launching in a more impoverished area.’
Speaking about the need for schools to provide the right environment for young children, Tina said, ‘If I put my Froebel hat on again, children need a garden. I mean, that was, definitely half the space that children would need to have. So having the classroom would only be one part of it. And as you say, you've got to have the facilities for the caring of very little children.
‘So, I think that is going to be a challenge. But I am attracted very much to the idea that, a lot of these settings will be in areas of high need, because that is how the nursery schools started, and I hope that the staff working with that age range will be valued by the other staff and that they will, as soon as possible, you know, have graduate trained teachers.’
The importance of play and creativity
Liz said it was 'interesting' that Labour has said it will bring back more of a focus on creative subjects, such as music and drama, subjects which have been 'squeezed out'.
Tina said, 'It's important and they're deeply valued. And so we do want that for all children to experience.'
Liz asked Tina about the role of play, which has been 'so central' to her work and whether when she visited settings and schools today she saw enough play.
'No, I don't, I think we've got a lot of work to do in understanding more about play,' said Tina 'I think one of the most crucial things, actually, in order to develop play is to give children really rich first hand real experiences. So, you know, if you've cooked a pancake, if you've cooked a Chapati, if you've cooked some rice, then that begins to come into the play.'
Tina also shared reminiscences of her long career, including as chair of the Early Years Advisory Group set up by the Labour government when Margaret Hodge was children’s minister, who she said was able to bring in discussions around health with the then health secretary Patricia Hewitt. ‘We were able to have discussions with the minister every two or three months and talk about things which were important to us,' she said. 'And of course, the civil servants were making notes and listening…and health and education came together.’
You can listen to Liz and Tina on episode 13 of the Froebel podcast here
